hi john,

the dvr certainly isn't as nice as tivo, but you're mistaken about the storage. look through the vents at the top of the box: there's a hard drive sitting right there. 100+ gb of ram would be extremely expensive and impractical.

• Posted by: daryn
• November 2, 2006 9:42 PM

Absolutely perfect description of the debacle that is Comcast DVR. My wife loves Tivo and hates this thing. I don't think the user interface could be worse, the performace slower, or the overall crappiness more crappy.

• Posted by: t0r0t0r0t0r0
• November 2, 2006 9:43 PM

You are aware, I hope, that Comcast will be offering the TiVo guide and software on the Motorola HD-DVRs by the end of the year. It's expected to cost an extra $5/mo.

They're also rolling out new HD-DVRs, made by panasonic, soon.

I'd say both are worth a shot before you drop $800 on a crippled S3, not counting service.

• Posted by: Ed
• November 2, 2006 9:43 PM

If it has a hard drive, why on earth does it lose the programming? I tested it, it loses it every time.

• Posted by: John Battelle
• November 2, 2006 9:46 PM

Also, losing your recordings following a power outage is not normal. It is normal (and annoying) to lose guide data with this model after a power outage, but you won't lose configuration, saved recordings, or scheduled recordings. It sounds like your box is broken :(

The box has its share of other problems that you haven't encountered. Like the 12/31/89 recordings that you can't delete and that lock up the DVR until you cut off its power. That sucks.

• Posted by: Ed
• November 2, 2006 9:49 PM

Your take on this box is right on..

I have a Tivo and this Comcast abortion..
Tivo is great, and the Motorola box
needs to be redesigned from the ground up.

Recently I was contacted by Motorola for
a job doing set-top box testing. I had
to think about it for a while before I
decided.. needless to say it I think there
would be some job security-- unless the
whole development team gets sacked for letting
such an terrible product out the door.

For Shame Motorola !!!
Comcast-- well, I wasn't expecting too much
from you-- hell, I'm still stuck with your
poor service 10+ years later.. but don't worry--
your time is limited.. Verizon will be installing
fiber soon enough.

• Posted by: Rick James
• November 2, 2006 9:50 PM

I guess this isn't a PayPerPost....

• Posted by: Kevin Burton
• November 2, 2006 9:53 PM

The Comcast HD DVR - that is, the Motorola 6412 HD DVR that Comcast gives to their customers - does in fact have a hard disk. However, like John I've discovered that it doesn't necessarily keep track of information like the program guide and what has been recorded using the hard drive. Evidently that would be, like, hard, even though any first-semester CS student should be able to implement it in their sleep. Seriously, it's that bad.

• Posted by: Chris Hanson
• November 2, 2006 9:53 PM

I agree with nearly everything you said about how horrible the GUI and features of the HD DVR are. However I'm not sure why your bos loses all of its information after a power outage, but mine has never lost stored shows after one or even after pulling the cord out of the back of the box. Maybe you have a defunct box - as if they're not all defunct, anyway. If Ed is right about the Tivo stuff coming to Comast, I'd hold out - otherwise I'd run back to Tivo, also.

• Posted by: All Evolve
• November 2, 2006 9:53 PM

Wow John, what an impressive, and oustanding, rant. We love our TiVo. We love our Macs. I am glad to have read this for when we make the move to HD, we too will be sure to avoid this Comcast horror. Good luck to you and your wife. Maybe with the TV taking a breather, some of your future snuggling could not involve television at all?

• Posted by: Louis Gray
• November 2, 2006 9:57 PM

John,

I have also been using TiVO since the series 1 and all I have to say about it is great things as well. Its simplified the way my wife and myself and my 4.5 year old son watch TV!

I started with the SONY SVR2000 Series 1 TiVO, then upgraded to the TiVO Branded Series 2 (this one was abused in our move SF to LA) and then this past year got the famous Dual Tuner Series 2 w/ 80GB HD... which is sooooooo cool... as now I can record two shows at once and never wory about running out of space!!!

I too have had the worst luck w/ Comcast (thats what my cable provider was in SF), I am always open to trying out new UI (its my job after all), and the Comcast DVR was in my house for less than a day... I returned it to the local office and never looked back!

Side note for your readers: a great DVR/PVR related site for information and inside tips on TiVO and other devices is PVRBLog.com.

• Posted by: Jason Fields
• November 2, 2006 10:01 PM

I have one of these craptastical boxes too, and it makes me wish I could smash it into a pulp... one tiny thing I have discovered is that you can call Comcast's 800 number and have a rep send a reset signal through the wires, which, sadly only temporarily, clears up the lagging and backup of commands. At least for me, it doesn't erase my recorded programming.

When it comes right down to it, I miss my Tivo... I really hope Comcast comes out with something better soon, but the rep I talked to yesterday to reset my box yet again said it's not coming before the end of next year and had no idea about any potential Tivo integration. Paying for something this awful hurts.

• Posted by: adam
• November 2, 2006 10:06 PM

Awesome post John! I too am a huge TiVo fan, and you have absolutely captured the perfect metaphor for it. TiVo is the Macintosh of the TV world...

Reminds me of a great article written by Rick Reilly in the 12/23/2003 issue of Sports Illustrated, describing TiVo as 'The best invention ever. Period.'

• Posted by: TDrive
• November 2, 2006 10:07 PM

I was a Tivo Series 1 person as well, and a convergence of that box showing its age and Comcast rolling out an incompatible, non-DVR cable box caused me to try their lousy DVR. After many missed programs, having the DVR record 5 minutes and then crap out, having the DVR mute itself and be unable to un-mute without turning the damn thing on and off again, and having to reboot it about every other day, I gave up. I now have Dish. Their DVR, while not a Tivo, is a nicely designed box. The only drawbacks are not having those wacky Tivo suggestions and a less robust search feature, but I can live without those things. Plus, it's a better price than cable.

• Posted by: jessie
• November 2, 2006 10:12 PM

I too HATE the moto/comcast dvr. I had a DirecTivo setup at my last house and I LOVED it. It didn't get in the way and made watching TV something I enjoyed. The comcast setup just pisses me off. Pretty much every day the thing will get stuck for 30 seconds to a few minutes queuing up button presses.

It makes me upset just thinking about that POS!

• Posted by: Drew
• November 2, 2006 10:45 PM

we too suffer with one of these boxes at home. Comcast has replaced ours (twice) and has rest it remotely about 8 times in 7 months.

after TIVO and DirectTV (a combo we loved), the Comcast + motorola DVR combo feels like Microsoft Word 6.... bloated, slow, and pointless.

DirecTV made some poor choices when it dropped it's TIVO offering as well... leaving consumers back at square 1.

we have found that bitching to Comcast gets a response, but no credits on our bill and a new device doesn't seem to be coming anytime soon. Thanks for posting about this issue

• Posted by: bobdow
• November 2, 2006 10:46 PM

hear hear!!! we switched from tivo when the new comcast (now time warner) boxen arrived... and man do i miss that tivo. we still make the noises ourselves when ffwding etc. just because we miss them so.

• Posted by: andy
• November 2, 2006 10:50 PM

Don't take this as fact as the person I heard it from may have it wrong. But I work for Comcast as an installer and I've heard that the current interactive guide is a Microsoft hand me down. It was apparently an early version of their interactive programming guide that they decided wasn't good enough and Comcast bought it from them for their DVR's. Explains a lot doesn't it.

• Posted by: iggy
• November 2, 2006 11:03 PM

I recently acquired a Comcast DVR/PVR and wholeheartedly agree with everything you said about how BAD the product truly is. I don't think I've encountered a more badly designed piece of consumer electronics and horrid example of UI design gone terribly wrong. I consider it basically unusable. I had been meaning to write to Comcast letting them know how badly they needed to dump the product and get something better as something definitely needs to be done. It definitely isn't worth the monthly fee which doesn't help them and doesn't help anyone else. Why can't they work with someone like Tivo and license their technology? Comcast could help a good company and product succeed while having a usable product to provide to their customers. A win-win situation in my opinion. At the minimum Comcast/Motorola should fire the current UI designer(s) and everyone who let this product make it to market and hire someone with even a slight amount of common sense to design their interface next time.

• Posted by: Nick Woods
• November 2, 2006 11:19 PM

A-fucking-men brother!

• Posted by: Jason D-
• November 2, 2006 11:49 PM

Don't forget all the mysterious glitches these things have. I'm on my sixth box...each lasts about a month or two before spazzing out.

The last one jusr randomly recorded whatever it wanted- like ten hours straight of Chinese television, or random 5-minute blocks. One stopped putting titles on the recordings...it was like having a pantry full of cans with no labels, you had to pick something random and hope you got lucky. The last one stopped letting me change the channel. The current version unschedules everything, but it's the most reliable version I've had so far...

• Posted by: Jennifer Emick
• November 2, 2006 11:50 PM

i made comcast come and take it away. seriously.

• Posted by: stevieAnn
• November 2, 2006 11:51 PM

Funny how you compare the Crapcast DVR with Windows, because Windows Media Center just works. As a turnkey solution, it records standard cable and over-the-air HD without problems. The video quality is excellent, the interface is responsive, and the program guide is free.

Yes, Home Theater PC's are an ugly and quirky solution. The beauty of Media Center is you can keep the big ugly PC in the office and connect an inconspicuous Xbox 360 to your HDTV. This works just as well as having the PC out in the living room, and the PC can be used for something else at the same time.

If you want to get fancy with Media Center, you can. Vista will natively support digital cable. In the meantime, there is an easy way to connect the standard Comcast box via firewire.

How about skipping commercials while the show is still recording? Start watching 10 minutes after it starts, and you'll never see another ad. That's also easy to set up. Want to keep it? Burn it to DVD or archive it as WMV, Divx, or whatever format you want. It can even save a whole season for you automatically.

Does MS include any of those nifty features? Well, no. But it's really just Windows XP underneath, and that's the beauty of it. It's open! There nothing to keep you from extending the functionality. (Yes, MythTV is even more flexible, but there's nothing as elegant or powerful as the Xbox 360 extender for linux)

• Posted by: Coyote
• November 3, 2006 12:08 AM

Remember how we used to laugh at Soviet engineering, horribly misdesigned ripoffs of western technology, replete with armor-like chassis & fragile vacuum tubes when the rest of the world had gone to colorful durable plastics & tiny transistors?

That’s the Comcast DVR miscegenation compared to a TiVo.

The Comcast DVR is WRONG. So wrong you wonder if it was designed by folks who had ever used a television or were actually members of some previously unknown tribe of engineers who had heard vague rumors of ‘television’ and then been commissioned (cheaply!) to build a DVR based on those 3rd-hand jungle telegraph stories. So awfully wrong that you wonder if the Comcast DVR is actually some incredibly hip, sly, ironic commentary on the dysfunctional buerocratic nature of modern mass media and we’re all gonna be blown away by the sheer brilliance of the social hack when the culprits finally ‘fess up to it.

“Your show will be recorded between noon and 5pm on Tuesday.
You must be present for it to be recorded.
I’m sorry, our records show we tried to record it but you weren’t home.
We can reschedule your recording for 4 months from now...”

It used to be that the USA was where the world went to see what tomorrow would be like. Broad orderly roads marching off to the horizon in neat right-angles. Clean efficient technology supporting a dynamic culture endlessly reinventing itself. Prosperity, security, superiority, a shining beacon to the world... Now we’re the poor sods with 525 flickery lines who can’t master HDTV, modern cellphones, or grok a next-generation DVR.

But lets not be abject TiVo-worshipers. It’s a great technology, brilliant interface, just a pity TiVo Corp. is the consumer electronics version of Novell. Great stuff, rock solid, oughtta own the market; instead they’re so mind-bogglingly incompetent they’re pissing it away with one half-executed strategy after another.

Home Media Option, thumbs-up-to-record-this, inserted advertising, self-destructing recordings, Netflix-downloads, TiVo-To-Go-(not-to-a-Mac), and the late-to-market, overpriced, underwhelming, HD TiVo. One disappointment after another as TiVo becomes increasingly less relevant, possibly to soon be nothing more then a trivia question & patent portfolio.

Oh, and TiVo-on-Comcast-DVRs, so many years coming ya gotta really wonder about the caliber of engineers at TiVo. This has taken longer then the whole Series 1 TiVo took to develop & build, and it’s only now going into limited beta testing. By the time they get around to rolling it out ranches in Idaho will have IPv6 fiber networks spewing RSS feeds of iTune’d Bittorrents for the asking.

• Posted by: Michael Maggard
• November 3, 2006 12:08 AM

Yes, the comcast DVR is a monster. I have had numerous problems in the year and a half I've had it. In retrospect, I should have stuck with Dish Network. But to be fair to Comcast, it does have some excellent features. For example, you can watch a program while recording another one on another channel. You can watch a recorded program while recording two other programs at the same time! Yes, the interface is a grievance, but it could be a lot worse. What bothers me most is the way you can't fast forward through a show without being forced to watch most of it. Until a recent firmware upgrade, I couldn't prioritize shows to save my life. They were showing up with the same number on the priority list and I couldn't move them up or down. Fortunately, Comcast upgraded the reciever overnight and it worked great the next day. Yes, it has problems, and yes, they are way too slow being fixed. But in all fairness, I've never lost all my programs from a power outage. I've lost the guide functions, but they usually come back after about an hour.

To be honest, Comcast sucks, but you're unlikely to get anything that's truly better from the competition. I've tried Dish and it was excellent, but it had serious problems as well. Anyway, great post!

• Posted by: noir
• November 3, 2006 12:29 AM

Yes. Same goes for Time Warner Cable (presumably the same box)...
Our Tivo started crapping out, and the cheap ($0 down, $8.40/mo) alternative from TWC seemed like a no-brainer. Well, that's who made it, alright. Jesus. Your "NEC making a Mac" analogy is perfect. Someone do something.

• Posted by: Victor B
• November 3, 2006 1:01 AM

John-

Excellent post. I have the same crappy ass box. I made the move to Comcast HD when moving households and left behind my previous DishNetwork HD setup, which I loved.

My biggest complaints are that it constantly reboots itself and the remote is unresponsive and then decides to catch up...

Crap, the box just now rebooted while I was trying to pause a program.

• Posted by: Cory
• November 3, 2006 1:23 AM

I could not agree more. I have this same piece of junk - which I pay a LOT of money for, and I'm stuck with it because I live in a building without access to a DirecTV dish.

I have to call Comcast to zap the damn thing over the air every 6 weeks because this pile of crap gets progressively worse over time. The image starts mirroring in two halves at first, then it just starts going black until you've played a saved video, then it starts recording only a fraction of your recordings (only 6 mins of The Office, for example), then one day, it just stops working entirely.

I've never had a single piece of electronics in my home that was this poor in quality. It amazes me that Motorola was irresponsible enough to release this piece of junk.

• Posted by: Mike Downey
• November 3, 2006 1:38 AM

why must we continue to dumb down everything. Macs exist so that morons can use a computer without actually having to learn anything about them. Same must go for TiVo given the analogy. I've had a Comcast DVR for several years and have never had a problem. If you simply spend 5 minutes and learn about it everything makes sense.

It's funny how TiVo and Macs both attract the same type of person... people who sacrifice functionality for ease of use...

• Posted by: The Man
• November 3, 2006 2:22 AM

Your link "I have written about it here many times" should be without the space between "site:" and "batellemedia.com" . Now we see results from all the web for the three words in stead of only "tivo" from the "site:battellemedia.com"
(In this comment I took away the space in the link).

• Posted by: Michiel
• November 3, 2006 3:07 AM

We have the dual tuner Comcast DVR too. We have had it wipe our recordings several times as well. If you can, I'd see if Comcast would trade this box for a single tuner DVR. We had that one for over 2 years before 'upgrading'. The single tuner box never lost it's programming in that entire time. It doesn't have series recording though.

• Posted by: missakins
• November 3, 2006 3:49 AM

@The Man - You obviously aren't a regular user of TiVo (or Macs for that matter) since you make the statement that people are sacrificing functionality for ease of use. I own both the TiVo and the Comcast HD DVR and the TiVo beats the HD DVR hands down when it comes to functionality and reliability. I keep the HD DVR around because it's cheap and it records HD.

However, I have gone through two Comcast boxes that have just mysteriously failed and taken all of my recordings with it. There have been several times when it hasn't recorded a new episode on a season recording, not to mention it's slow to respond. What problems do I have with my TiVo? None. It records everything with not a missed episode, I can easily transfer my programs to my PC every night with ease, the UI is clear and sensible and I can stream content from my PC (movies, TV shows, photos, music, etc.) The only way to get content off my Comcast HD DVR is to use my Mac (which I you don't believe is all that functional). Streaming content from and to the Comcast HD DVR is not an option.

@John - I'm not sure where you got the idea that the Comcast box (Motorola 6412) doesn't have a hard drive. It does and it shouldn't erase everything when the power goes out. My power has gone out a couple of times since I've had my Comcast boxes and I've never lost content because of it. I've just lost content because the boxes were crap.

• Posted by: Angel Phyfer
• November 3, 2006 4:08 AM

Great post, John, and right on. Very similar to a friend of mine's experience - longtime TiVo fan, couldn't get Dish or DirecTV at his house and got stuck with Comcast when he went HD. Sad, sad, sad.

Personally, I've been a fan of Dish Network's DVR equipment going on 6+ years now. They've had their growing pains but I find the features, interface, etc. to be very good and I prefer it to TiVo (especially since until now TiVo was a poor choice for pure digital TV). Of course, their nice execution of DVR apparently came from stealing from TiVo ...

• Posted by: Cap'n Ken
• November 3, 2006 4:20 AM

Many people are down on the HD series 3 Tivo, and I don't understand why. I've been using Tivo since 1999, and I bought a series 3 the day they were announced. I love it; it's exactly like my old series one, except HD and it can record two shows at once. I have comcast cable, and they installed two cable cards with no fuss.

It's simple, it works, and it saves me from TV schedule tyranny. Just like a Tivo should.

• Posted by: Bill ODonnell
• November 3, 2006 4:21 AM

I have the Comcast box and have had no issues. I know I'm one of the lucky ones, because my in-laws have gone through five of them.

My one issue was with the remote. Ungodly slow and it would take 5 seconds to register that I had hit a button, but only sometimes. Simple solution - get a Logitech Harmony remote. If you already shelled out for an HD TV, you might as well get a worthy remote to go with it. The Harmony is not only instantly responsive, but it lets you access the 30-second-skip feature that Comcast doesn't want you to use. Push that button six times and you're through a commercial break in 2 seconds.

As for losing programs, I have tripped a circuit breaker several times and my programs have all survived. The guide data on the other hand...

• Posted by: Sean
• November 3, 2006 5:23 AM

Amen to the crappyness of the Motorola firmware (assuming that Rogers here in Canada uses the same firmware as Comcast, 'cos it's the same set-top box)! Even my wife prefers the interface on our MythTV media PC to the interface on the Motorola box. True, the Harmony remote does make things somewhat better, but there's no fixing the fact that the UI is an unadulterated mess. Now if only I could hook my MythTV box up to my HD digital cable, I'd be set...

• Posted by: simplisticton
• November 3, 2006 5:32 AM

When I had Comcast the box would often reset for apparently no reason, each time losing all of the programming information. I eventually switched to RCN and was horrified to discover they used the exact same box and software! The good news is that at least RCN has gone through a software upgrade so the interface is a hell of a lot better now (but still no TiVo).

• Posted by: Sligo
• November 3, 2006 5:47 AM

I love TiVo. I reviewed a pre-production unit and have owned 5 since, and given away 4 as gifts to friends and family. I have owned series 1, 2, and now 3.

I also have lived with both Comcast Motorola and Cablevision Scientific Atlanta boxes.

If I still lived in Comcast country, I would not have bought the Series 3. I got used to that box and while not as 'fun' as the TiVo, it was functional and basically free in comparison, and TIVo had no HD solution for the 18+ months I owned it. Sounds like you have a dud, because it is not that bad.

It also had some of its own innovations TiVo could take a tip from, like the very well done PIP feature so you can watch TV *while* you are using most menus, and the ability to ZOOM through the program guide by holding down buttons, while the series 3 simply *crawls*.

Add no guided setup, no hardware cost, no phone line or network adapter needed, no install (they do that for you), and the ability to pick up the phone and get a new one if it breaks regardless of warranty, and the Comcast box, while not the cutting edge, is actually a comparitively insane value.

The Series 3 cost me about $900 including taxes and shipping, plus about $20 a MONTH for subscription + 2 cablecard rentals. its truly fucking ridiculous.

Why did I get it? Well, because I have been stuck using a Cablevision Scientific Atlanta HDDVR in CT. If you havent used one of these, you have no idea what a bad HDDVR looks like, because it blows huge chunks.

The guide is 4:3 with grey sidebars. If you switch to 4:3 cahnnels you have to navigate a menu to stretch it. And once stretched, HD channels are ALSO stretched beyond the screen, so you have to go back to the menu! The program guide takes TWO button presses to get to. The interface makes the Comcast interface look beuatiful.

Oh it also goes into sleep mode so when you first use it every day you have to push a button on the remote and wait for it to 'wake up'!!

I also have a couple of other beefs with TiVo. The series 1 was absolutely perfect. The series 2 left a very bad taste in my mouth, launching it with the 'promise' of 'undisclosed' 'cool' features, taking forever to launch them (for $199!!!), then never launching the 802.11g/USB 2.0 which you really needed to make some of them even usable without wiring your whole house for Ethernet.

I also owned one of the series 2 which touted the new 'Extreme Quality', which was actually worse, and triggered a class-action lawsuit.

Finally, and worst of all, TiVo left me in the HD lurch for TWO YEARS after the cable company boxes launched their HD-PVRs. And while they the interfaces werent as great, any HD owner will tell you that ANY HDPVR is preferable to watching stretched recompressed SD video on a 50-inch widescreen.

• Posted by: Seth Brundle
• November 3, 2006 5:54 AM

This is why TiVo is still in business in the face of competition from generic DVRs from pretty much every satellite and cable company. Bottom line: TiVo is just a far superior product. DirecTV stopped making integrated DirecTV/TiVo boxes, and users are clamoring for them still. In fact, users are moving over to cable to get the HD TiVo boxes that you link to - and that don't work with DirecTV.

• Posted by: Michael Adberg
• November 3, 2006 5:56 AM

In analogical terms, and also in terms of marketshare, Tivo was and is the Microsoft of DVRs - simple, easy to use, but restrictive. ReplayTV was the Apple analogue. Whereas Tivo was always about reduced features and playing along with the content owners, ReplayTV was about giving people as much control as possible over their content. And ReplayTV paid for this by continual litigation and, eventually, market death.

• Posted by: meehawl
• November 3, 2006 5:57 AM

We used to have the TiVo plus DirectTV combo until an unlucky lightening strike. The new DirecTV DVR sucks too. I hate it hate it hate it.

• Posted by: PaulaG
• November 3, 2006 5:58 AM

Michiel - I fixed that link, thanks! Great input, all, I guess I struck a nerve...

• Posted by: John Battelle
• November 3, 2006 6:02 AM

Ouch. We have Comcast cable, but a Scientific Atlanta DVR. It works perfectly and I like it a lot more than my friend's TiVo. I'm astounded by how many problems people are having. Must have gotten lucky and gotten a non-Comcast box, eh?

• Posted by: Alex
• November 3, 2006 6:02 AM

I have two Comcast DVR's (both Motorola w/ HD). While I can hear your concerns/arguments, the reality is that it does the job. It records/pauses TV while I'm watching it. And coupled with a Slingbox I can control/watch it from anywhere.

• Posted by: Josh
• November 3, 2006 6:05 AM

I agree completely with everything that was said. I decided to try the comcast/motorola DVR and I am shocked at how bad it is.

I have a number of discounts on my account so I figured why not try it out for free. I have three Tivos, so this would be a good chance to compare them for myself.

Yes, the UI, the software, the performance are all bad but
the hardware quality is terrible also. I have replaced the DVR 3 times in three weeks and the 4th is going to need replacing also. Audio problems, video problems, automatic resets while recording or watching programs. It is terrible. Then the customer service is even worse.

It will be great to have the Tivo software on the cable company's box and only pay a monthly fee, but if the hardware quality is not going to change we won't be any happier. I think the users will be even more frustrated having great software they can't use because the hardware does not run.

• Posted by: David
• November 3, 2006 6:16 AM

John, of course the Comcast DVR has a hard disk. In fact, if you think about it for even a few seconds you'll realize that the box could not possibly keep all the HD content you've recorded in RAM. A single program can occupy several gigabytes of disk space. You probably have a 160GB disk drive in that box, and to replace that with RAM would cost, at current prices, about $16,000. Not to mention requiring 160 memory slots.

You have a defective box.

• Posted by: Ed Bott
• November 3, 2006 6:24 AM

Ed - yeah, I probably do. But the UI is not defective, no wait, it is, but they MADE it that way.

• Posted by: John Battelle
• November 3, 2006 6:31 AM

Replace "Comcast" with "Cablevision" and I couldn't agree more. My Cablevision DVR pales in comparison to my Tivo Series 1.

For example, I can't comprehend why on the Cablevision DVR if I stop watching a show in the middle and come back later, I have to start watching from the beginning again! #$%#$@#!

But, unfortunately, it took Tivo three years to come out with a HD Tivo, and at a $1000 price point (including service) to boot. For even the most loyal Tivo fans, that's a large pill to swallow...

• Posted by: Jarid
• November 3, 2006 6:40 AM

When it comes to Comcast's web site, I think they got caught up in Web 2.0 hype.

• Posted by: John
• November 3, 2006 6:48 AM

My power goes out frequently during storms. I bought an $80 UPS (Uninterruptable Power Supply) which has worked very well. If it helps you decide on a UPS, my box draws about 30 watts.

• Posted by: Ashley Thomas
• November 3, 2006 7:01 AM

I was forwarded your post by a friend of mine who knows that I share your feelings about both the TiVO (perhaps somewhat less enthusiastically, but certainly relative to...) and the Comcast HD-DVR. I had a Series 1 (given away to an old girlfriend) and have a Panasonic-branded Series 2, as well as the POS Comcast Motorola HD-DVR box. I hate the latter like the Taliban hate freedom.

I know others already have posted the correction that the box does have a hard drive. I admit that I didn't read all of the preceding comments, so someone may have mentioned this already, as well: It doesn't wipe clean after a power outage. Here's how you recover both the already recorded programs and the scheduled upcoming recordings (which you've entered using the worst interface since Burroughs made computers):
(1) Call up Comcast and sit on hold listening to that bad cover band "bluesy" wait music, then tell the service rep your problem so she can send a signal to the box;
(2) Despite the fact that the whole problem was caused by a power outage, unplug the box for 30 seconds or so while you're on the phone with her.
Once you plug it back in and she sends her signal, your prerecorded programs will be there and once the guide info slowly downloads, your scheduled recordings will be there.
I've had to go through this process about three times since I got the thing in May/June.

Don't get me started on how my TiVo S2 upconverts everything to 720p, but with the Comcast Motorola box, if it ain't in HD, it stays in 480i. Or how unreliable Comcast's On Demand service is. Or....

• Posted by: TCL
• November 3, 2006 7:07 AM

There are at LEAST 2 versions of the Comcast DVR software for Motorola Boxes. Washington state has a version developed by Microsoft and their MSTV division (which is ironically based in Mountain View, CA, not Redmond), developed specifically for cable boxes. The rest of their boxes are mostly using their own in house created software.

Anyone in Washington willing to offer their opinions? Is it any better? Since you wrote this in Marin, I'm assuming you have the Comcast software.

• Posted by: Dennis
• November 3, 2006 7:17 AM

You are a complete noob. Yes, sorry to stoop to typical internet name calling. But your nice little article read like a rant by someone who simply lacks the ability to adjust to something different and is so technologically inept as to make ignorant assumptions that school children would find laughable.

I have three comcast DVR's, all of which are the same model as the you have. They aren't perfect, but they certainly aren't anything like your low brow rant would lead one to believe. My only complaint with them is the small size of the HD and the occasional (once or twice per week) input lag I experience using the DVR. THe most recent software update may have helped that though, as I haven't experienced it since, but time will tell there. If the remote control is difficult for you, maybe you should go back to twist knobs. I haven't seen a remote control for any device that I found difficult in over a decade.

• Posted by: Jason
• November 3, 2006 7:20 AM

I also switched from Tivo to Comcast DVR when I bought my first HD set about 5 months ago. I've had a similar experience, including losing all of my saved shows on one occasion. Now I'm just waiting for the Comcast DVR with Tivo to come out at the end of the year or wait for the Tivo S3 to come down in price.

• Posted by: Mike D
• November 3, 2006 7:32 AM

I have the same Comcast DVR, and agree - it is far from perfect. I've never been blessed with Tivo, but it is not dificult to imagine the Tivo is far superior. The Comcast box sets the bar so incredibly low, almost anything would be better.

However, in defense of the otherwise useless box - it's never lost programming. I've had my box crash a few times so badly that it required unplugging to free it up, and every time it reboots I find all my stored programs intact. What I do lose, is the Guide data, but that eventually gets re-downloaded.

The one critical task, which is to record and store programs, it does in fact do.

Usability is a mess, and the occaisional remote lag is infuriating... but in the end it's usable because it accomplishes that one critical task.

_Am

• Posted by: Andy
• November 3, 2006 7:37 AM

I also have 2 Moto 6412 Comcast boxes. I was a very long time ReplayTV series 5000 owner, loved them, but had to let them go to make the jump to HDTV.

The input lag that I, and many commenters above, experience isn't isolated just to the Moto DVR boxes from Comcast. A good friend has the non-DVR Moto box from Comcast and he experiences exactly the same thing. That's what leads me to doubt that the promised TiVo software for the 6412's will solve that problem. It's a Motorola problem, not a Motorola DVR problem.

I also do not lose recorded shows after power failures. Not clear what's up with that, the unit has a hard drive.

• Posted by: Bill G
• November 3, 2006 7:42 AM

I have Comcast, and I live on the coastside in El Granada, where the power goes out all the time. It works terribly. The interface is awful. But in Phoenix, where I also live, I have Cox, and the Scientific Atlanta HD DVR box is worse than the Comcast. And you are right, neither is as good as TIVO. Why the cable companies didn't just license Tivo at the outset is beyond me.

• Posted by: francine hardaway
• November 3, 2006 7:52 AM

You are going to LOVE the Tivo Series 3...it's EVERYTHING the Comcast is not. We'll all expect a post after you get it on just HOW GREAT the new Tivo HD is. It truly is the Mac or Lexus of the DVR world....

Note: Even when the Comcast box is working it randomly lags (buffers) it's input commands up from 1 - 5 minutes...completely ruining your tv watching experience when using any of it's DVR functions.

• Posted by: Jim Cook
• November 3, 2006 7:55 AM

John, in a scary way you and I are on the exact same cycle right now. I picked up a new HD set at Best Buy in Marin City last week and then got the Comcast HD last night. My take away - this is a lot of effort and money for a relatively lame experience (except for the 5 shows and 2 sports programs that look great). As if to put an exclamation point on the issue you rant about, I recently purchased a beautiful 24" iMac. The comparison of the consumer experience isn't even fair. I think I'll just use the Mac. :-)

• Posted by: Rob
• November 3, 2006 7:59 AM

Kinda makes you wonder why TiVo and Comcast can't get a deal done? TiVo his the UI and IP and Comcast has the distribution.

TiVo you should be a software company!!! Stop selling boxes....

Comcast you should care about bringing best of breed solutions to your customers instead of purely leveraging your oligopoly power for max profit.

Bring on the IPTV!

Bring on RSS distributed video!

• Posted by: David Henderson
• November 3, 2006 8:02 AM

Many, many points in your rant are true. I find the Comcast DVR to be a real pain in the ass to use most days; it is horribly slow and prone to weird hiccups. Then again, my TiVo was doing the same things after the last software update.
This entire issue really boils down to pricing and marketing tactics.
The Comcast DVR is $9.99 per month for dual-tuner HD recording.
The TiVo Series 3 is $16.95 per month... plus the outrageous $800 purchase price plus whatever your cable company charges for cable cards plus you still need the cable.
This makes the difference, not the software or hardware issues. The price.
"Just get a TiVo instead" is a glib and ridiculous answer to the problem. Few people I know can afford to plunk down an additional $800.

• Posted by: Gene
• November 3, 2006 8:07 AM

A FEW TIPS & TRICKS TO EASE THE COMCAST AGONY...

30 SECOND SKIP BUTTON FOR YOUR "COMCASTIC" REMOTE:
I couldn't live without this and missed it from my Tivo so I searched out this little pearl...

Please read carefully and remember, once the button has been programmed, it is permanent. My suggestion is to use the [Help] button for the 30 second skip function. I have only set this up on the Silver remotes and have not set it up on the black remotes yet.

Take your remote:
· Hit the Cable button - It'll blink
· Press and hold the Setup button until the cable button blinks twice
· Enter 994 - The Cable button will blink twice
· Hit setup (do not hold)
· Enter 00173 on your keypad
· Hit any button that you don't use (like FAV or Help or a button close to your 8 sec rewind)
Now that button will be your 30-second quick skip feature.

COMCAST SAVINGS:
If you have Comcast Cable and want to save some money call them and ask them what specials they are currently running. The lady on the phone just told me that every customer is entitled to 2 promotions per year. For example, my Silver Package is $76.99/month and I just got a special for three months for $49.99/mo for three months. My last special was the Silver Package for $39.99/mo.

• Posted by: ep
• November 3, 2006 8:11 AM

Guess it is taking a while:

http://www.pvrblog.com/pvr/2005/03/comcast_and_tiv.html

• Posted by: Matt
• November 3, 2006 8:11 AM

It's amazing that you posted this story as I was complaining about the same crappiness last night about the Comcast DVR. I was trying to delete some shows while a HD show was playing in the background. After about five minutes of the DVR being completely unresponsive (the dang thing queues commands, so will execute them quickly after it frees up and then lock up again!) and sporadically issuing commands, I turned off the TV and went to bed. Figured I would take care of it later.

Hopefully if what is said about the Tivo software and Panasonic DVR's above is true, I will swap out my DVR soon!

• Posted by: Andrew
• November 3, 2006 8:20 AM

i hate hate hate hate hate my comcast dvr. the one i had w/ time warner last year was much better, though not available where i live now.
first of all, sometimes my dvr just won't record a program, even though it's in there, confirmed, etc. oops! who knows why!
second, i find that the comcast dvr, in comparison to the time warner dvr, cannot determine when a program is new and when it's a rerun. i have it set to record, let's say, all new episodes of the colbert report. well, it apparently thinks this is all episodes of the colbert report, as long as they're the "new" episode that ran the night before. meaning, it will tape 4 episodes during the day while i'm at work, unless i go through and specifically tell it not to. it's not just that show, either. it's so frustrating, so clunky, and sometimes when i turn it on, it's muted, and i can't get it to unmute unless i power down, and power up again, missing minutes of whatever show it was taping.

thanks, comcast! you're truly and industry leader.

• Posted by: marah
• November 3, 2006 8:22 AM

Think about it. Comcast's DVR is their way of getting people to hate DVRs and stop wanting them.

• Posted by: ArcSine
• November 3, 2006 8:28 AM

John, thanks for this post. I was going to go and pick up the Comcast HD-DVR tomorrow, but now I think that I will wait for other options.

Does anyone have anything positive to say about this beast? Are there any other options if you are on comcast?

• Posted by: Scott
• November 3, 2006 8:47 AM

You are so right, John. I've been using this box on Mediacom for a few months, and it is truly crap. Guess I'm stuck with it because I'm not willing to shell out for a Tivo or build a PVR, so I won't whine too much...but you'd think they could release a firmware update or something.

The remote lag is truly odd. And while I don't find the interface so horrid, it's not very good.

Sometimes it will simply refuse to record a series. It seems to accept the new series recording, but no dice.

Worst of all, like you I often lose recordings for no reason I can understand. If I don't catch it in time, I'll lose subsequent shows as the box won't record anything else until I unplug to reset it. After that the programs come back. Maybe that's the problem for you.

FWIW, Mediacom insisted it has to do with a bad cable connection, which they "fixed" (squirrels chewed through cable at the tap)...but it still does it.

• Posted by: Doodle
• November 3, 2006 8:48 AM

ComCast's HD DVR absolutely sucks. I went through 4 of them because of overheating problems, guide sluggishness, tiling, and so on. I also had this same unit while living in a different state using COX. This Motorola DVR is just junk. Get a TiVo instead.

• Posted by: Dave
• November 3, 2006 8:50 AM

Welcome back to Tivo. Thanks for the heads up on inferior Comcast units. FWIW the DirecTV DVR is not bad, we use that in our guestroom.

• Posted by: MikeM
• November 3, 2006 8:56 AM

John your box sounds very broken if it lost all your recordings I have movies that I have saved from months ago.

I guess I'm the only one that doesn't mind the Comcast DVR. I have the 2 tuner unit and it has a HDD. It doesn't lose my recordings after a power outage but it does lose the guide for a bit until it downloads. I'm a PC geek type person so I guess a few hitches don't trouble me.

It does bug me that it's response slows down at times and I have had to unplug it once or twice to clear it and call Comcast once for a reset when it wouldn't let me play a program (took under 5 min to fix).

Why I like it more than TIVO. Works with my cable system and I can record all channels I get. 2 tuners so I can record 2 things and watch a 3rd that I recorded earlier. Yes you can do that. I don't have to buy a box for big $$ and pay a subscription fee.

My one problem with all DVR's is that they feed my TV addication.

• Posted by: Tim Russell
• November 3, 2006 8:59 AM

I haven't read through all of the comments before mine, so it may have been said already, but I wanted to say that I've had the same experience losing DVR recordings. My girlfriend and I moved to a different apartment in the same building, in which our box (a Motorola 3412) was unplugged for a couple of days. After moving into our new place, we wouldn't have cable right away, but we had a box full of shows, so we thought we'd just watch them while we wait for our technician. When we plugged our box in, we couldn't see the shows and we called Comcast multiple times. Some reps said we had to have concurrent cable service to access our recorded shows, some said it should be working fine without cable service. Once we had our cable service moved, the shows were still missing. We finally got a tech who was probably not supposed to give us the straight truth, but told us that when a box is unplugged, it's really 50/50 if the shows will get lost. ugh. I've read about transferring shows from the box to a PC using a firewire. I'm going to give this a try soon.

• Posted by: Jimmy McColery
• November 3, 2006 9:07 AM

Amen, brutha!

My girlfriend and I almost went insane with this thing. I took it back ASAP and we waited until we could get our hands on the 3rd gen Tivo. I would list the crazy details of my rant, but you have sdone it ever so elequently!

• Posted by: Eeno McBeano
• November 3, 2006 9:13 AM

The Moto box may suck, but all I care about is the ability to record 2 HD shows at once. The only other option is an $800 Tivo box + $17/mo. to run it.

There is no way im trading my HD for a "better interface". Thats like choosing to drive a Acura over a Lamborghini because it has AC and and an Ipod dock...

• Posted by: Willy
• November 3, 2006 9:14 AM

Thanks so much for the review - I just moved from NYC to Chicago and have encountered all the problems with Comcast cable which is preinstalled in my building. I got their basic cable box which blows - counter-intuitive/retarded in every way - you can't tell which shows you have set to record by looking at the onscreen menu nor can you tell when the "to record" list maxes out; the box has a tendency to reset itself; the controls on the remote don't work; ...
And I thought that Time Warner had problems.
If this is their competition then T-W should move in for the kill.
I have just signed on to TiVo - thanks again before I rant too much about Comcast’s terrible products and services.

• Posted by: julianmiller
• November 3, 2006 9:17 AM

Is anyone having a problem with the Comcast DVR box losing sound in the recording process? We experience a lot of signal break-up, as well as random audio loss, although the audio loss often happens without any distortion in the video portion. The end result is just as if the mute button is being used randomly during the recording. (And I swear it knows the most crucial audio to lose -- especially on murder mystery programs!) We're on our second Comcast DVR box trying to fix this problem, which Comcast denies ever having heard of before.

• Posted by: Mama
• November 3, 2006 9:26 AM

Man you people are a bunch of whiners. If you don't like the comcast DVR, don't use it. Go out, buy your $1,000 series 3 Tivo and then bitch and whine to comcast to allow cable-card use, that's all it takes.

• Posted by: chief
• November 3, 2006 9:28 AM

The Motorola 6412 box can be frustrating at times, that's for sure. But it absolutely should not lose recorded programs when power is lost. Never has for me.

Maximize your experience with this less-than-perfect box (and minimize frustrations) by bookmarking and reading the excellent and well-maintained Wikipedia information on it here:

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_Motorola_DVR

• Posted by: Glenn
• November 3, 2006 9:34 AM

John-

The outpouring in this thread is pretty amazing. Do you think that anyone at Comcast is listening? This really is the beauty of the local monopoly that Comcast and the other cable companies have.

I remember picking up my first DVR (ReplayTV) and marveling at the simplicity of the device and how well it worked. Even then I thought, if these things catch on, the cable and satellite companies will crush Replay and Tivo by leasing these boxes to their customers. I mean, the software was simple, right? It sure looked that way.

And therein lies the rub. The software isn't simple, it's made to look that way. Both Replay and Tivo started with some great design and iterated like hell. The mundane details like automatically buffering the ends of the program, resolving conflicting recordings, disk space management, yadda, yadda, yadda.

The point is, Tivo delights us and Comcast kicks sand in your face. Tivo has to compete like hell and Comcast counts the money rolling in.

• Posted by: Randy Stewart
• November 3, 2006 9:41 AM

We have 2 Comcast HD/DVR boxes and have had to replace both a few times when they just stopped working completely. I hate having to reprogram all of my shows, but I love DVR and can't imagine not having it. I did notice the weird mute issue. One one tv, I can just increase or decrease the volume to unmute but on our other tv, you can't do anything to bring the sound back until the program you are recording is finished. That's annoying. Has anyone ever had this happen-- the TV turns itself on or off at the beginning or end of a recorded program! We used to think there was a ghost in the house but then I realized it happens when recording is starting or stopping. It's an adventure for sure...

• Posted by: Karen
• November 3, 2006 9:44 AM

It did cost quite a chunk of change, but I'm glad I have Beyond TV and a terabyte of hard drive space on my HTPC which allows me to record a lot of SD and HD. The system has passed the wife test with flying colors, and the HD looks glorious on a 50-inch HDTV screen.

• Posted by: Charles Lai
• November 3, 2006 10:10 AM

There really is very little for me to add - we got the HD TV and then this P.O.S. DVR from comcast and it has been nothing but the nightmare that John describes.

Here's where I'm tripping and would like some further invetigation: we lost everything (all recorded programs and all scheduled to record) on Nov 1st...does that map to John's loss? (He posted on the 2nd and referred to the incident as happening 'last night'.) We had no power outage, our machine just randomly shuts itself down, which is what happened this time. Methinks there is something larger going on here...

• Posted by: willow foster
• November 3, 2006 10:10 AM

The amount of feedback and commentary on this post is incredible. Tivo stock has had a pretty volatile run over the past two years. I keep coming back, however, to the fundamental thesis that they will eventually start making money because of very comments made above. I think the name Tivo is probably worth $500mm alone. I live in Mill Valley and have both a Tivo and Comcast HD DVR. There is no doubt that I will pay the $5 additional to have the Tivo software on my box as soon as it becomes available. Let's hope that the rev share on the Tivo side is enough to keep them in business.

JN

• Posted by: Jed N.
• November 3, 2006 10:24 AM

Category: Comcast Cable Television

Sub-Category: Service

Dear Comcast,

I agree with the opinions expressed on the Comcast DVR in the following article.
http://battellemedia.com/archives/003055.php

Without an option, I remain a subscriber. Will there be a better product for
Comcast DVR subscribers soon?

Thank you,
Ken

Dear Ken,

Thank you for taking the time to write us.

The DVR has undergone 2 updates in the past year. It is possible another update
will be available to address any issues in the future. With the feedback
provided this will help us to improve the service.

Thank you for the opportunity to assist you. If you need further assistance
with any of your Comcast services please reply to this email and we will be
happy to assist you. Thank you again for choosing Comcast we appreciate your
business. To visit our local support page including links to contact us via
Live Chat, as well as many downloadable forms,and FAQ pages, please visit:
http://www.comcast.com/nesupport/

Did you know that Comcast offers its customers a variety of free benefits?
These include McAfee Antivirus, Firewall and Privacy software as well the
Comcast tool bar that lets you take Comcast.net with you while you surf, and the
Desktop Doctor to help you restore lost settings...plus much more, please visit
http://www.comcast.net/downloads/ to see all of the extras that we provide.

Sincerely,
Brian

Comcast Electronic Customer Care - New England

• Posted by: Ken
• November 3, 2006 10:27 AM

I have the HD Tivo and while the product itself is predictably elegant and easy to use keeping its two CableCards working smoothly has been a hassle - I've had to call into Time-Warner Cable once a week or so and have them re-send the EMMs that authorize the cards to decode the premium channels. Other than that, it's great - although I'd been a ReplayTV user since PVRs came on the scene, and I do miss the Replay's superior pause-live-TV handling.

• Posted by: Nic
• November 3, 2006 10:29 AM

Ladies & Germs,

I feel your pain. . . I'm on my third Comcast HD/TiVO box in maybe 5 mo. Understand, I had no previous experience with TiVO but did have a DVR for another TV with the analog channels. Pretty straightforward to run.

Anyway, Comcast box 1 sounded like a jet engine, so I took it back and exchanged it. Box 2 would make programs disappear - or perhaps they were never there - intermittently. I knew I was recording them, saw the red light on while watching something else in some cases.

As an additional FYI, I shut down the TiVO box at night - sometimes programs stayed on the hard drive (yes, there is one) and sometimes not. Called in again and was told it might be a bad hard drive.

Tech came out and replaced the box - so far, I've got shows that are stored on there that haven't gone away yet. It's all a great mystery to me!

• Posted by: Kevin
• November 3, 2006 10:37 AM

great rant...if you want to see the latest Battlestar Gallactica check out this link :on not legal but it still is there...youtube...http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=frrackkit

• Posted by: jerry sullivan
• November 3, 2006 11:07 AM

Kind of funny that you jumped to the conclusion that it doesn't have a HD. Typical non-technical idiot Mac user.

• Posted by: GRFBWM
• November 3, 2006 11:11 AM

Comcast DVR licks the sweat off a dead Tivo's balls.

• Posted by: Ian
• November 3, 2006 11:22 AM

wow, LOTS of commenting going on here, I think you found a hot topic! a similar situation happened with me and directv. My directivo died (probably because I modded it and put a second hard drive in, and it tended to overheat) and so I went back to best buy to get another only to find that they didn't sell them anymore. All they had was the directv version, no tivo. So I reluctantly bought one for $100 (and the guy informed me that I DON'T OWN IT EVEN THOUGH I JUST BOUGHT IT AT A RETAIL STORE) and brought it home and started using it. That didn't last long. It just does several things so very wrong that tivo demonstrated how to do the right way. I eventually almost stopped using it altogether. Then a few months later I moved and canceled my directv. Now they have sent me a box saying I need to send them the receiver back or I owe them $479. What the crap is that?!?!? I guess I will see if it is an idle threat because I sure as heck ain't sending them a damn thing.

but I also heard from a friend that tivo series 3 is pretty bad too, like they reverted back to series 1 for a lot of features. haven't used it firsthand though.

• Posted by: dumbfounder
• November 3, 2006 11:23 AM

No hard drive? I have the same model from a Canadian Cable company, and it has a hard drive, I find it hard to believe it records only to memory, HD programs are around 5gigs an hour!

• Posted by: Donovan
• November 3, 2006 11:30 AM

I have the Washington version of the 6412 comcast DVR. While the user interface looks fine, the navigation is still abysmal compared to my older ReplayTV. There have been several bugs like FF sticking (you had to wait for the entire show to FF before the unit would respond) and having all your recordings get lost when you switched to daylight savings time and each time Comcast has released a software upgrade they've broken something new.

The hardware is underpowered. It responds very sluggishly to remote control commands and it takes at least a full minute when you try and resolve conflicts before the box comes back.

However it's dual tuner, records most of the time in HD and I'm smart enough to have a HTPC as a backup unit. Ths cost is worth it ($10 a month) compared to dropping a grand for a series 3. The biggest issue is that the box reboots itself at least 1x a day, usually at a very inconvenient time.

• Posted by: Metz
• November 3, 2006 11:40 AM

I too have one of these, coming from the HD DirecTiVo. So craptacular!

It does in fact have a hard drive, but neglects to store the file directory on it, only the data, so after a power outage it doesn't know what's on the drive anymore.

• Posted by: Jim Stanton
• November 3, 2006 11:46 AM

John, i feel your pain man. We renamed ours :-)

...More on the Comcast DVR

We just yanked all the comcast and directtv crap out of our house and replaced them with series 3 tivos. And to those that are excited about the tivo software on the motorola platform. Good luck that box runs the temp of the sun.

• Posted by: Todd Vernon
• November 3, 2006 11:53 AM

I dropped $800 on a TiVo Series 3 because I