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	<title>Comments on: Google Steps Gingerly Toward Search As Application</title>
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	<description>Thoughts on the intersection of search, media, technology, and more.</description>
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		<title>By: Geoff Jackson</title>
		<link>http://battellemedia.com/archives/2010/05/google_steps_gingerly_toward_search_as_application.php#comment-2260</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff Jackson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 May 2010 17:23:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://battellemedia.com/archives/2010/05/google_steps_gingerly_toward_search_as_application.php#comment-2260</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Incidentally, since my last comment to David, it appears the radio buttons for Web/UK have been removed from the Firefox Google search now.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Incidentally, since my last comment to David, it appears the radio buttons for Web/UK have been removed from the Firefox Google search now.</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff Jackson</title>
		<link>http://battellemedia.com/archives/2010/05/google_steps_gingerly_toward_search_as_application.php#comment-2259</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff Jackson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 May 2010 15:04:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://battellemedia.com/archives/2010/05/google_steps_gingerly_toward_search_as_application.php#comment-2259</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;@David Bridge: You can still select the &#039;Pages from the Web/UK&#039; radio buttons with the Firefox Google search which I simply use rather than Google.co.uk directly.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Don&#039;t know if this is of any use to you?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.google.co.uk/firefox?client=firefox-a&amp;rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.google.co.uk/firefox?client=firefox-a&amp;rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@David Bridge: You can still select the &#8216;Pages from the Web/UK&#8217; radio buttons with the Firefox Google search which I simply use rather than Google.co.uk directly.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t know if this is of any use to you?</p>
<p><a href="http://www.google.co.uk/firefox?client=firefox-a&#038;rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official" rel="nofollow">http://www.google.co.uk/firefox?client=firefox-a&#038;rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official</a></p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Young</title>
		<link>http://battellemedia.com/archives/2010/05/google_steps_gingerly_toward_search_as_application.php#comment-2258</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Young</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 May 2010 21:19:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://battellemedia.com/archives/2010/05/google_steps_gingerly_toward_search_as_application.php#comment-2258</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;@Dave Bridge I&#039;m totally with you there.&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m in OZ (google.com.au) and have to add + Australia to every search. The link - &quot;Links from Australia&quot; from the left column does not function correctly.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Just did a search and was given a UK map,  USA, UK Canadian information before what I&#039;m looking for from Australia.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I figure there is an opportunity for some other search to overtake Google here.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Bing is looking like that at present&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Dave Bridge I&#8217;m totally with you there.<br />
I&#8217;m in OZ (google.com.au) and have to add + Australia to every search. The link &#8211; &#8220;Links from Australia&#8221; from the left column does not function correctly.</p>
<p>Just did a search and was given a UK map,  USA, UK Canadian information before what I&#8217;m looking for from Australia.</p>
<p>I figure there is an opportunity for some other search to overtake Google here.</p>
<p>Bing is looking like that at present</p>
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		<title>By: David Bridge</title>
		<link>http://battellemedia.com/archives/2010/05/google_steps_gingerly_toward_search_as_application.php#comment-2257</link>
		<dc:creator>David Bridge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 May 2010 10:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://battellemedia.com/archives/2010/05/google_steps_gingerly_toward_search_as_application.php#comment-2257</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;A big change is that you no longer have the radio button offering default UK search with google.co.uk.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;You now have to waste time with a general search before you are then offered the uk option in the left hand column.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Can someone recommend an alternative that I can switch to?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A big change is that you no longer have the radio button offering default UK search with google.co.uk.</p>
<p>You now have to waste time with a general search before you are then offered the uk option in the left hand column.</p>
<p>Can someone recommend an alternative that I can switch to?</p>
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		<title>By: A Reder</title>
		<link>http://battellemedia.com/archives/2010/05/google_steps_gingerly_toward_search_as_application.php#comment-2256</link>
		<dc:creator>A Reder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 May 2010 06:14:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://battellemedia.com/archives/2010/05/google_steps_gingerly_toward_search_as_application.php#comment-2256</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You &quot;framed the new service&quot;?  (Bing)&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I think you men you wrote about it.  Or described it.  Or commented upon it.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;There is no substitute, in good writing, for clarity of expression.  Style is not a substitute.  Unless clarity is at the heart style becomes fluff.  Froth.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You &#8220;framed the new service&#8221;?  (Bing)</p>
<p>I think you men you wrote about it.  Or described it.  Or commented upon it.</p>
<p>There is no substitute, in good writing, for clarity of expression.  Style is not a substitute.  Unless clarity is at the heart style becomes fluff.  Froth.</p>
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		<title>By: Trevor</title>
		<link>http://battellemedia.com/archives/2010/05/google_steps_gingerly_toward_search_as_application.php#comment-2255</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 May 2010 05:00:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://battellemedia.com/archives/2010/05/google_steps_gingerly_toward_search_as_application.php#comment-2255</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Google, welcome to the land of the sell outs. For as long as i can remember i have used google because it is a valuable tech tool, making it easy and simple to find exactly what you want, and if you think that this sidebar is a step in the right direction then you have been seriously misguided. I hate bing with a passion because of their fucking sidebar, and im about to change over to it because i hate to see the best search engine there is go and screw themselves over. REMOVE THE SIDEBAR! Everyone who loves google loves it for its simplicity and if you start trying to fix what wast broke then your just killing yourself. Your top bar does exactly what the sidebar does, and doesnt take up my entire screen. The new format looks absolutely terrible and im raging right now and feel like hurling my pc because for the past 3 hours ive been looking for a way to remove it, and you didnt even make that option available! For the love of god...if its not broke dont fix it, PLEASE! I IMPLORE THAT YOU REMOVE THIS SIDEBAR!!!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Google, welcome to the land of the sell outs. For as long as i can remember i have used google because it is a valuable tech tool, making it easy and simple to find exactly what you want, and if you think that this sidebar is a step in the right direction then you have been seriously misguided. I hate bing with a passion because of their fucking sidebar, and im about to change over to it because i hate to see the best search engine there is go and screw themselves over. REMOVE THE SIDEBAR! Everyone who loves google loves it for its simplicity and if you start trying to fix what wast broke then your just killing yourself. Your top bar does exactly what the sidebar does, and doesnt take up my entire screen. The new format looks absolutely terrible and im raging right now and feel like hurling my pc because for the past 3 hours ive been looking for a way to remove it, and you didnt even make that option available! For the love of god&#8230;if its not broke dont fix it, PLEASE! I IMPLORE THAT YOU REMOVE THIS SIDEBAR!!!</p>
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		<title>By: JG</title>
		<link>http://battellemedia.com/archives/2010/05/google_steps_gingerly_toward_search_as_application.php#comment-2254</link>
		<dc:creator>JG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 May 2010 18:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://battellemedia.com/archives/2010/05/google_steps_gingerly_toward_search_as_application.php#comment-2254</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;@Linda:  &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;From the Google &quot;10 things&quot; corporate philosophy page, under the &quot;don&#039;t be evil&quot; point, which lays out the relationship between organic results and ads:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&quot;&lt;i&gt;It is a core value for Google that there be no compromising of the integrity of our [organic] results.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;So now, suppose Google is A/B testing two different search interfaces, A and B.  System A is is &quot;search as ten links&quot; (traditional web search) system.  System B is this new generation of &quot;search as application&quot; with enhanced UI and interaction.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Suppose furthermore that clickthrough/usage rates in System A is medium for organic results, and medium for advertisements.  And suppose that clickthrough/usage in System B is high for organic results, and low for ads.  Are you with me so far?  Basically, System B increases user satisfaction with organic results, at the expense of ads.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I submit that if Google then chooses to deploy System A over System B, then they have compromised the integrity of their [organic] search results.  Why?  Because the search results under System B were actually much better, as measured by usage, than under System A.  But by not choosing B, because ad clickthrough was lower, Google has placed the interest of the advertisers above the interest of the users, thus compromising the quality of their organic search system.  &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;And what John has said is that this is exactly what Google did.. they tested their &quot;application-like&quot; search interface until they came up with one that did not lower ad clickthrough rates.  If that is really true, then that shows a willingness for Google to compromise the integrity of their search results.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;On top of that, Google has said:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&quot;Google&#039;s advertising programs are independent of Google&#039;s search results.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://adwords.google.com/support/aw/bin/answer.py?hl=en&amp;answer=172101&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://adwords.google.com/support/aw/bin/answer.py?hl=en&amp;answer=172101&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If now there is a team at Google that is optimizing a System metric in which clickthrough/usage of organic results is NOT measured independently of clickthrough/usage of ads, then that means that Google&#039;s advertising programs are NOT independent of Google&#039;s search results.  Why?  Because the metric is involved in a feedback loop to the parameters of a ranking algorithm.  And if that metric is not independent, then neither are the results, or the interfaces, etc.  &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Correct?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Linda:  </p>
<p>From the Google &#8220;10 things&#8221; corporate philosophy page, under the &#8220;don&#8217;t be evil&#8221; point, which lays out the relationship between organic results and ads:</p>
<p>&#8220;<i>It is a core value for Google that there be no compromising of the integrity of our [organic] results.</i>&#8220;</p>
<p>So now, suppose Google is A/B testing two different search interfaces, A and B.  System A is is &#8220;search as ten links&#8221; (traditional web search) system.  System B is this new generation of &#8220;search as application&#8221; with enhanced UI and interaction.</p>
<p>Suppose furthermore that clickthrough/usage rates in System A is medium for organic results, and medium for advertisements.  And suppose that clickthrough/usage in System B is high for organic results, and low for ads.  Are you with me so far?  Basically, System B increases user satisfaction with organic results, at the expense of ads.</p>
<p>I submit that if Google then chooses to deploy System A over System B, then they have compromised the integrity of their [organic] search results.  Why?  Because the search results under System B were actually much better, as measured by usage, than under System A.  But by not choosing B, because ad clickthrough was lower, Google has placed the interest of the advertisers above the interest of the users, thus compromising the quality of their organic search system.  </p>
<p>And what John has said is that this is exactly what Google did.. they tested their &#8220;application-like&#8221; search interface until they came up with one that did not lower ad clickthrough rates.  If that is really true, then that shows a willingness for Google to compromise the integrity of their search results.</p>
<p>On top of that, Google has said:</p>
<p>&#8220;Google&#8217;s advertising programs are independent of Google&#8217;s search results.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://adwords.google.com/support/aw/bin/answer.py?hl=en&#038;answer=172101" rel="nofollow">http://adwords.google.com/support/aw/bin/answer.py?hl=en&#038;answer=172101</a></p>
<p>If now there is a team at Google that is optimizing a System metric in which clickthrough/usage of organic results is NOT measured independently of clickthrough/usage of ads, then that means that Google&#8217;s advertising programs are NOT independent of Google&#8217;s search results.  Why?  Because the metric is involved in a feedback loop to the parameters of a ranking algorithm.  And if that metric is not independent, then neither are the results, or the interfaces, etc.  </p>
<p>Correct?</p>
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		<title>By: Norbert Mayer-Wittmann</title>
		<link>http://battellemedia.com/archives/2010/05/google_steps_gingerly_toward_search_as_application.php#comment-2253</link>
		<dc:creator>Norbert Mayer-Wittmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 May 2010 16:33:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://battellemedia.com/archives/2010/05/google_steps_gingerly_toward_search_as_application.php#comment-2253</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;@Linda&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Yes, and that&#039;s primarily why the target audience for people who advertise on that site are GooTards (I think John has a nice graphic showing such a &quot;typical&quot; profile ;).... However, I find it amazing that advertisers would be willing to pay so much money to reach such a naive + unsophisticated demographic.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;BTW: I tried searching for you by name on startups.com, but couldn&#039;t find your profile (I take it you use an &quot;alias&quot; user name)&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;:) nmw&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Linda</p>
<p>Yes, and that&#8217;s primarily why the target audience for people who advertise on that site are GooTards (I think John has a nice graphic showing such a &#8220;typical&#8221; profile <img src='http://battellemedia.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> &#8230;. However, I find it amazing that advertisers would be willing to pay so much money to reach such a naive + unsophisticated demographic.</p>
<p>BTW: I tried searching for you by name on startups.com, but couldn&#8217;t find your profile (I take it you use an &#8220;alias&#8221; user name)</p>
<p> <img src='http://battellemedia.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  nmw</p>
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		<title>By: Linda Rowe</title>
		<link>http://battellemedia.com/archives/2010/05/google_steps_gingerly_toward_search_as_application.php#comment-2252</link>
		<dc:creator>Linda Rowe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 May 2010 13:13:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://battellemedia.com/archives/2010/05/google_steps_gingerly_toward_search_as_application.php#comment-2252</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;@JG As a matter of fact, I don&#039;t know what are the principles that you say Google stands for when making reference to the ads. It is basic, the ads will be shown based on your search, based on your interests and that&#039;s the basis of Google ads&#039; appeal. &lt;br /&gt;
When I first tried asking people with experience about this on the startups website, I was explained different. &lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@JG As a matter of fact, I don&#8217;t know what are the principles that you say Google stands for when making reference to the ads. It is basic, the ads will be shown based on your search, based on your interests and that&#8217;s the basis of Google ads&#8217; appeal. <br />
When I first tried asking people with experience about this on the startups website, I was explained different. </p>
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		<title>By: Norbert Mayer-Wittmann</title>
		<link>http://battellemedia.com/archives/2010/05/google_steps_gingerly_toward_search_as_application.php#comment-2251</link>
		<dc:creator>Norbert Mayer-Wittmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 May 2010 12:25:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://battellemedia.com/archives/2010/05/google_steps_gingerly_toward_search_as_application.php#comment-2251</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;@JG LOL ;D&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;@John There&#039;s no place like Everywhere ;D&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;See also &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theonion.com/video/google-opt-out-feature-lets-users-protect-privacy,14358/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.theonion.com/video/google-opt-out-feature-lets-users-protect-privacy,14358/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;LMFAO!&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;:D nmw&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@JG LOL ;D</p>
<p>@John There&#8217;s no place like Everywhere ;D</p>
<p>See also <a href="http://www.theonion.com/video/google-opt-out-feature-lets-users-protect-privacy,14358/" rel="nofollow">http://www.theonion.com/video/google-opt-out-feature-lets-users-protect-privacy,14358/</a></p>
<p>LMFAO!</p>
<p> <img src='http://battellemedia.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' />  nmw</p>
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