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	<title>Comments on: NYT Finds An AOL Searcher</title>
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	<description>Thoughts on the intersection of search, media, technology, and more.</description>
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		<title>By: Search Engines WEB ۞</title>
		<link>http://battellemedia.com/archives/2006/08/nyt_finds_an_aol_searcher.php#comment-14073</link>
		<dc:creator>Search Engines WEB ۞</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Aug 2006 07:54:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://battellemedia.com/archives/2006/08/nyt_finds_an_aol_searcher.php#comment-14073</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt; Electronic Frontier Foundation Launches AOL Privacy help site....but, no one is going after Google.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
https&lt;br /&gt;
 secure.eff.org/site/Advocacy?alertId=243&amp;rid=other.281&amp;pg=logACall&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
An excerpt from their Webpage:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Here&#039;s What to Say:&lt;br /&gt;
First, ask to be informed if you were one of the AOL members affected by the leak. &lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Second, say that you&#039;d like AOL to stop keeping these kinds of logs.&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
Third, say that AOL should work with Congress to make stronger laws to protect the privacy in data collected by Internet companies. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Fourth, ask to be contacted when AOL decides to take action on these problems. &lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Electronic Frontier Foundation Launches AOL Privacy help site&#8230;.but, no one is going after Google.</p>
<p>
https<br />
 secure.eff.org/site/Advocacy?alertId=243&#038;rid=other.281&#038;pg=logACall</p>
<p>
An excerpt from their Webpage:</p>
<blockquote><p><i><br />
Here&#8217;s What to Say:<br />
First, ask to be informed if you were one of the AOL members affected by the leak. </i></p></blockquote>
<p>Second, say that you&#8217;d like AOL to stop keeping these kinds of logs.</p>
<p>Third, say that AOL should work with Congress to make stronger laws to protect the privacy in data collected by Internet companies. </p>
<p>Fourth, ask to be contacted when AOL decides to take action on these problems. </p>
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		<title>By: Jim Benson</title>
		<link>http://battellemedia.com/archives/2006/08/nyt_finds_an_aol_searcher.php#comment-14072</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Benson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Aug 2006 15:36:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://battellemedia.com/archives/2006/08/nyt_finds_an_aol_searcher.php#comment-14072</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hey John,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Is there a major search engine that does not save our search results?  &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I&#039;ve looked at a few of the browser anonymizers - they work but slow you system down to such a crawl that it&#039;s not worth using on a regular basis.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Jim&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey John,</p>
<p>Is there a major search engine that does not save our search results?  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve looked at a few of the browser anonymizers &#8211; they work but slow you system down to such a crawl that it&#8217;s not worth using on a regular basis.</p>
<p>Jim</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jean</title>
		<link>http://battellemedia.com/archives/2006/08/nyt_finds_an_aol_searcher.php#comment-14071</link>
		<dc:creator>Jean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Aug 2006 15:28:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://battellemedia.com/archives/2006/08/nyt_finds_an_aol_searcher.php#comment-14071</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&quot;If you give the moose a cookie...&quot; (there&#039;s got to be a haiku in here!)&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If you gave the consumer a simple uncluttered opportunity to opt out of having their search logs saved for use by the search engines, I guarantee the overwhelming majority would take it. The &quot;consumer benefit arguments&quot; will absolutely not balance out the consumer&#039;s fundamental desire for privacy and fear of the unknown. This is heading towards the &quot;do not call&quot; momentum - the benefit is aligned to the gain of advertisers and engines and consumer intrusion (via risk and fear) is under-weighed and ignored.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Which engine will choose to follow the consumer? It&#039;s the philosophy that got Google their juice. Eric says he&#039;s keeping the logs; there&#039;s a potentially BIG opening to listen to the consumer and trump the engineering-centered thinking of Google.    &lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If you give the moose a cookie&#8230;&#8221; (there&#8217;s got to be a haiku in here!)</p>
<p>If you gave the consumer a simple uncluttered opportunity to opt out of having their search logs saved for use by the search engines, I guarantee the overwhelming majority would take it. The &#8220;consumer benefit arguments&#8221; will absolutely not balance out the consumer&#8217;s fundamental desire for privacy and fear of the unknown. This is heading towards the &#8220;do not call&#8221; momentum &#8211; the benefit is aligned to the gain of advertisers and engines and consumer intrusion (via risk and fear) is under-weighed and ignored.</p>
<p>Which engine will choose to follow the consumer? It&#8217;s the philosophy that got Google their juice. Eric says he&#8217;s keeping the logs; there&#8217;s a potentially BIG opening to listen to the consumer and trump the engineering-centered thinking of Google.    </p>
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		<title>By: Webmetricsguru</title>
		<link>http://battellemedia.com/archives/2006/08/nyt_finds_an_aol_searcher.php#comment-14070</link>
		<dc:creator>Webmetricsguru</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Aug 2006 03:22:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://battellemedia.com/archives/2006/08/nyt_finds_an_aol_searcher.php#comment-14070</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I posted about this story earlier today (knowing that John would also be covering it as he was mentioned in the AOL Story).&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;One of things that has not been looked at yet is Google and Yahoo&#039;s search partners have control of Search Query logs that pass through their own search engines.   Sure, Google might be very careful with it&#039;s Query Logs; but AOL also owns the part of Google&#039;s Query Logs powering their search engine - same with the rest of the second tier search engines, esp those that are powered by Google or Yahoo.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;While the second tier search engines don&#039;t represent much of a share of the total search usage (maybe 10% max), they are not as committed to privacy or as transparant with what the do with the information - they can do whatever they want - mistake or no mistake - and that&#039;s what happened with AOL.   Someone had a bright idea but did not think it through - happens all the time.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;On one side you have companies that want to geo-locate, segment and target searchers to they can better sell to them; you also have the goverment that wants to exercise control (for it&#039;s own mixed reasons).  On the other side, you have people who clearly see this as an invasion of their rights.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It&#039;s hard to say who will win, at the end of it - but if someone puts enough effort into query analysis - and they have the Search Query logs - they can probably tie the majority of search queries back to the the individuals who made them.  It&#039;s just a matter of how badly they want to do it and why.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I posted about this story earlier today (knowing that John would also be covering it as he was mentioned in the AOL Story).</p>
<p>One of things that has not been looked at yet is Google and Yahoo&#8217;s search partners have control of Search Query logs that pass through their own search engines.   Sure, Google might be very careful with it&#8217;s Query Logs; but AOL also owns the part of Google&#8217;s Query Logs powering their search engine &#8211; same with the rest of the second tier search engines, esp those that are powered by Google or Yahoo.</p>
<p>While the second tier search engines don&#8217;t represent much of a share of the total search usage (maybe 10% max), they are not as committed to privacy or as transparant with what the do with the information &#8211; they can do whatever they want &#8211; mistake or no mistake &#8211; and that&#8217;s what happened with AOL.   Someone had a bright idea but did not think it through &#8211; happens all the time.</p>
<p>On one side you have companies that want to geo-locate, segment and target searchers to they can better sell to them; you also have the goverment that wants to exercise control (for it&#8217;s own mixed reasons).  On the other side, you have people who clearly see this as an invasion of their rights.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s hard to say who will win, at the end of it &#8211; but if someone puts enough effort into query analysis &#8211; and they have the Search Query logs &#8211; they can probably tie the majority of search queries back to the the individuals who made them.  It&#8217;s just a matter of how badly they want to do it and why.</p>
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		<title>By: Gerald</title>
		<link>http://battellemedia.com/archives/2006/08/nyt_finds_an_aol_searcher.php#comment-14069</link>
		<dc:creator>Gerald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Aug 2006 17:39:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://battellemedia.com/archives/2006/08/nyt_finds_an_aol_searcher.php#comment-14069</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;it could be even much simpler to collect data. the nytimes got 2462 unique visitors from aol-search. among them there should be a lot of people that are subscribers to one of their services. nyt uses cookies, take that cookie and match AOL-ID with User-Data and you are in. that&#039;s shocking. search for a starlet, celebrity or politician, write your story ...&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;incredible - but not impossible.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it could be even much simpler to collect data. the nytimes got 2462 unique visitors from aol-search. among them there should be a lot of people that are subscribers to one of their services. nyt uses cookies, take that cookie and match AOL-ID with User-Data and you are in. that&#8217;s shocking. search for a starlet, celebrity or politician, write your story &#8230;</p>
<p>incredible &#8211; but not impossible.</p>
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		<title>By: Seth Finkelstein</title>
		<link>http://battellemedia.com/archives/2006/08/nyt_finds_an_aol_searcher.php#comment-14068</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth Finkelstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Aug 2006 17:22:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://battellemedia.com/archives/2006/08/nyt_finds_an_aol_searcher.php#comment-14068</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yes - conventional wisdom is changing right before our eyes. The punditoverse will now have a frame of reference for the discussion about log retention, privacy implications of search, data-mining, etc.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes &#8211; conventional wisdom is changing right before our eyes. The punditoverse will now have a frame of reference for the discussion about log retention, privacy implications of search, data-mining, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: McCarthy</title>
		<link>http://battellemedia.com/archives/2006/08/nyt_finds_an_aol_searcher.php#comment-14067</link>
		<dc:creator>McCarthy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Aug 2006 17:04:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://battellemedia.com/archives/2006/08/nyt_finds_an_aol_searcher.php#comment-14067</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This is why toolbars like G Desktop, Search History, Y! Toolbar are bad ideas. Sure, they provide some productivity, but the downside is pretty steep if the provider is evil or just plain stupid.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Even if your searches are relatively benign like Ms. Arnold, who wants their neighbors snooping through your personal interests? &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;What if the AOL data led us to some closet Neo-Nazi freak who is a well-regarded member of LinkedIn? I pity those connected to him... Digital McCarthyism, anyone?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is why toolbars like G Desktop, Search History, Y! Toolbar are bad ideas. Sure, they provide some productivity, but the downside is pretty steep if the provider is evil or just plain stupid.</p>
<p>Even if your searches are relatively benign like Ms. Arnold, who wants their neighbors snooping through your personal interests? </p>
<p>What if the AOL data led us to some closet Neo-Nazi freak who is a well-regarded member of LinkedIn? I pity those connected to him&#8230; Digital McCarthyism, anyone?</p>
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		<title>By: Craig Danuloff</title>
		<link>http://battellemedia.com/archives/2006/08/nyt_finds_an_aol_searcher.php#comment-14066</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig Danuloff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Aug 2006 16:42:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://battellemedia.com/archives/2006/08/nyt_finds_an_aol_searcher.php#comment-14066</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This is going to wake up a whole lotta people as to the risks (to them) and value (to the engines) of your &#039;database of intentions&#039;. As a minimum initial step, I think we should get an opt-out delimiter that the engines all standardize on to keep any search out any permanent tracking systems.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is going to wake up a whole lotta people as to the risks (to them) and value (to the engines) of your &#8216;database of intentions&#8217;. As a minimum initial step, I think we should get an opt-out delimiter that the engines all standardize on to keep any search out any permanent tracking systems.</p>
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		<title>By: Jean</title>
		<link>http://battellemedia.com/archives/2006/08/nyt_finds_an_aol_searcher.php#comment-14065</link>
		<dc:creator>Jean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Aug 2006 16:30:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://battellemedia.com/archives/2006/08/nyt_finds_an_aol_searcher.php#comment-14065</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Excellent perspective - the chilling effect is needed to move the conversation forward with a clear understanding of the impact and risks.  The grandmother in GA put it very elegantly describing AOL as &quot;looking over her shoulder&quot;, and her commitment to cancel AOL also calibrates the potential impact.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The ability to definitively &quot;find people&quot; is there, but the more chilling scenario is when this kind of data is combined with the social web, which allows group behavior to form &quot;on top of the data&quot;. Think of the ability for a zealous web engineer to infer general characteristics of an individual whose search behavior they dislike, communicate it to a &quot;growing mob&quot; and organize CSI-like forensics to lynch the individual. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Sobering thoughts that need to be brought to the forefront; congratulations, John on using your voice to propel the dialog. It is very important.  &lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent perspective &#8211; the chilling effect is needed to move the conversation forward with a clear understanding of the impact and risks.  The grandmother in GA put it very elegantly describing AOL as &#8220;looking over her shoulder&#8221;, and her commitment to cancel AOL also calibrates the potential impact.</p>
<p>The ability to definitively &#8220;find people&#8221; is there, but the more chilling scenario is when this kind of data is combined with the social web, which allows group behavior to form &#8220;on top of the data&#8221;. Think of the ability for a zealous web engineer to infer general characteristics of an individual whose search behavior they dislike, communicate it to a &#8220;growing mob&#8221; and organize CSI-like forensics to lynch the individual. </p>
<p>Sobering thoughts that need to be brought to the forefront; congratulations, John on using your voice to propel the dialog. It is very important.  </p>
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